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December 6th, 2013
09:37 PM ET

Fmr. Chief RNC economist: What are you guys smoking? The economy isn't good

In this episode of Crossfire the debate got fiery over the new job numbers.

Our right guest, Fmr. RNC Chief Economist Nancy Pfotenhauer, debated the quality of these jobs and our left host fmr. Gov. of Michigan, Jennifer Granholm is confident more could have been done sooner if it wasn't for the GOP in Congress.

Who do you agree with?

Granholm: Put minimum wage on state ballots

Granholm defends Michigan record

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Filed under: David Madland • Debates • economy • Jennifer Granholm • Jobs • Nancy Pfotenhauer • S.E. Cupp
soundoff (31 Responses)
  1. HereInTheUSA

    The Real American economy is still in the toilet, just waiting to get flushed.

    If our leaders would just Start Protecting Income-Tax-Paying American Citizens Jobs, the rest would take care of itself.

    Over the past 2-3 decades both parties have been selling out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the incursion of illegal aliens (cheap labor) and the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide.

    Our leaders need to start remembering that they are elected by the Citizens of the United States of America to represent the interests of those citizens and the country itself. – They are NOT elected by the Global Market Place or foreign citizens!

    The ONLY REAL FIX for Our Country is to Raise Revenue by Returning Jobs to US Citizens who Pay Income Tax.

    Our leaders better wake up and put some sensible measures in place to stem the tide or this is going to have a devastating effect on America and the American citizens.

    December 9, 2013 at 1:29 pm | Reply
  2. Minnie Mouse

    The economy isn't good. Over 1/2 of the country now is on some from of entitlement benefits from state and or federal aid. The income ratio of the country is 1% rich to 99% who aren't even close to that!!. We have people who are working low paying jobs living with some form of aid benefits just to survive or those who have gone to college who need two full time income and some families three incomes just to survive, because these people are paying for everything with no assistance benefits.

    How is this good for any family? Gas may have gone down about .75 a gallon since 2007 but nothing else has. Grapes are selling for nearly $2.30 a pound, 1 orange costs .75, and tomatoes are $1.99 a pound, child care is over $125 a week for a 10 year old during the summer, higher child care costs for infants, and now everyone has to buy health care insurance in which the prices have gone up on that also ect..

    There are plenty of jobs on the market but the pay doesn't meet the demands of the high costs of living. Even if the minimum wages were ever raised to $15 an hour and all of these people who are of entitlement benefits would be dropped but these people would be struggling just like everyone else who has gone to college, because food, rent, mortgages, gasoline, insurances, utilities, child care ect is to high.

    For a better economy, everyone needs to stop being so greedy and lower your prices, start giving yearly costs of living raises and yearly or quarterly bonuses to your employees. You would get more business. More business is the chance to open more businesses which, benefits the economy.

    December 9, 2013 at 7:04 am | Reply
  3. Fred Griswold

    In response to The REAL TRUTH, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about Hillary. She doesn't always do everything perfectly. Last time out, she didn't beat Barack Obama. And her health care initiative didn't work out too well. She's got an even chance, but it's a mistake to idolize anybody.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:39 am | Reply
    • HereInTheUSA

      Before Hillary runs for president, Americans need to remember that it was Clinton that sent us down the path of economic destruction by opening up the trade floodgates with China.

      It was President Clinton who got us into bed with China in the first place. Nixon restored normal diplomatic relations between the US and China, but Clinton is the one who opened up the trade floodgates with China. And both Bill and Hillary were actively involved during their visit to China. I don't trust either one of them.

      Under Clinton jobs to China, Under Bush I & II influx of illegals/cheap labor into the US and jobs to Mexico/NAFTA – Bush started it and it was signed into effect by Clinton. I loved President Reagan because he brought pride and respect back to our country after those embarrassingly weak Carter years, but unfortunately his shortsighted economic policy sent us down the wrong path. Jeez and the wizards on Wall Street wonder why the American people aren't putting as much money into savings and their 401k plans anymore. Maybe it's because the shortsighted economic policies, from the 1980's to the present, have come back to bite the hands that feed them. I guess the thought of changing from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy of smoke and mirrors is working out just great? – Not!

      Let's face it – Neither party really controls our country.

      Perot said it back in 1992 "Jobs getting sucked out of the country" – Many people saw it back then, but unfortunately too many people bought into the spin of "BS" that we were being sold. Seems that both parties were always able to distract and polarize voters with insignificant peripheral issues like gay marriage and abortion, which got most voters so caught up in the BS that they lost sight of the bigger picture.

      We need more Americans, like Perot tried to be, to get some sensible measures put in place to protect America, the American economy and American jobs.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Reply
      • Peppy

        NAFTA Act anyone??? One question. Would you leave your wife or daughter alone with Bill Clinton ??? No I didn't think so !!!!

        December 9, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
      • O'drama ya Mama

        NAFTA was created by H.W. Bush. All the negotiations were done between China and Bush. The timing in which NAFTA was signed happen to be at the very beginning of Clinton's Presidency. Yes the signature on NAFTA is Clinton's but it would not have been if it weren't for H.W. Bush. The same could be said about the hostages in Iran. Carter was the one who did all the negotiations but it just so happened that the timing of their release occurred right after Reagan was elected.

        December 10, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
      • James

        Clinton supported NAFTA and all Repulicans did. I think the idea was to equalize trade between the US, Canada and Mexico with some common regulations. But many American jobs were already being exported to Mexico before NAFTA.

        A newspaper in Iraan published a story in the late 80s that prior to the election, HW Bush had made deals with Kohmeni to sell arms and supplies to Iraan. Reagan denounced the article of course. The American public was sold on the idea that Kohmeni was in such fear of Reagan that he released them. If Carter hadn't been so insistent that he wouldn't negotiate with terrorists they would have been released much sooner. The story continues, the deal caused Kohmeni to hold the hostages longer that he would have otherwise, and to ignore the Carter administrations efforts to negotiate their early release.

        The Reagan administration denied most of the story but Reagan finally admitted that it looked like he was indeed trading arms for hostages but he didn't know it at the time. He was also completely unaware of North's terrorist campaign against the democratic republic of Nicaragua.

        Of course we spent a lot more time and money investigating Clinton's sex life than we did any of that - so who knows?

        December 24, 2013 at 8:38 am |
  4. ProtectAmericanJobs

    ALSO – We STILL need to Stop ILLEGAL immigration! They're not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay state and federal income taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay income taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we're paying for them again with our tax dollars. Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal aliens, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.

    Just look around and you'll see who's doing 90% of the residential renovations, construction and property maintenance jobs. That's certainly what we're seeing in the northeast. These are not just jobs that Americans don't want.

    The hiring of cheap illegal labor causes a chain reaction. The contractors who hire cheap, uninsured, non-income-taxpaying, ILLEGAL aliens undercut the contractors who hire US Citizens or Legal immigrants. Even if the contractor wants to continue to employ US Citizens or Legal tax-paying immigrants, they end up replacing their Legal employees with illegals just to be able to get the work. Unfortunately unions and the old "that's not my job" union attitudes here in the USA have also contributed to this problem.

    Also when these Non-income-tax-paying Illegal Aliens take American Citizens jobs they also are taking away the income tax revenue that those working American Citizens would be providing to our government. In addition, the American Citizens who have their jobs taken away by these Illegal Aliens then have to be paid unemployment and usually have no healthcare insurance either because they can't afford COBRA, which adds even more to our deficit and further increases our healthcare costs.

    Let's face it – Over the last 2-3 decades, both parties have been selling out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the incursion of illegal aliens (cheap labor) and the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide.

    I run a business that does it the right way and employs 20 US Citizens and 1 Legal Immigrant and I believe that the use of Workplace Raids is a perfectly realistic way to put a stop to this BS. Plus we should publish the results of these workplace raids and fines to the public, so American Citizens and customers could see which companies are employing illegals.

    Let's get the good productive illegal immigrants into the system and paying federal and state income tax or get them out and NOT Let Any More Come In unless they come in as Legal Immigrants. Make them apply for legal visas and or U.S. citizenship and if they don't, then get them out. If they get rejected get them out or give them one quick appeal and if they still get rejected, then get them out. And let's send the bad ILLEGAL Aliens back to where they came in and let's STOP ANYMORE ILLEGAL ALIENS from getting in.

    I also think we should start using our military to Start Keeping ILLEGAL Aliens Out.

    How About Hiring some of our Unemployed Veterans as Additional Border Patrol Officers, ICE and INS agents?

    ps: Most illegal alens are paid off the books and if they're employer says that they're deducting income tax they're lying. And the few that are being paid on the books, using fake IDs, claim a huge number of dependents, etc................ And could you or I get away with not filling income tax returns? And what about the ballsy ones that do file and claim a ridiculous amount of deductions to get big refunds. There are even sleazy accounts that specialize in helping them game the system.

    December 8, 2013 at 11:09 pm | Reply
    • Clark

      ya except if we stopped illegal immigration today, our critical infrastructure would collapse: meaning everyday life in America would come to a screeching halt.

      December 9, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Reply
      • Lynamorlo

        Obviously, enforcing the laws that govern all modern nations would of course shut this country down completely. lol
        Have you ever tried emigrating to any of our belovedly liberal counterparts in Europe? I have. First you need a job, not hypothetical, but already hired. In particular fields, not just any job usually. Then you need to learn the language fluently, usually within a time frame. I hope you don't have any medical issues. Also, I hope you can prove that you will have the finances to use their essential services, because they aren't free to noncitizens. But of course, if we did it here, it would be "biggoted."
        I assure you, we would be absolutely fine if we had real immigration laws and they were enforced. I say this as an ardent humanitarian and liberal (any liberal that forgets labor isn't a liberal). If a business can't possibly operate without hiring a disenfranchised immigrant who is at the end of his rope for less than a living wage, I argue that business doesn't need to operate. I'm also kind of tired of my country being a hub for human trafficking, and strong borders are a wonderful start.

        December 10, 2013 at 5:09 pm |
  5. ProtectAmericanJobs

    While our politicians have been bickering for years like idiotic fools, China has been crushing the USA in a war that we don't even know we're in and without even firing a shot.

    Bringing manufacturing back home to the USA is going to end up being not only a key to restoring our economy, but to maintaining our national security as well.

    * Chinese firms and state agencies have been implicated in a host of hacking attacks, on targets ranging from leading industrial and technology firms, to the Pentagon and other US government agencies, to the New York Times, Coca-Cola and numerous other companies and industries.

    * Oct 2012: The U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee said U.S. telecommunications operators should not be allowed do business with China's top network equipment makers because potential Chinese state influence on the companies poses a security threat.

    * Also most counterfeit goods are produced and manufactured in China, making it the counterfeit capital of the world. In fact, the counterfeiting industry accounts for 8% of China's GDP.

    * Foreign Lobbyists here in the US promote sending US jobs to countries like China, where they work for slave wages, no benefits, no OSHA safety standards or no real environment regulations. It also doesn't help us compete when these company's factories are subsidized by China's communist government. Just check out the current Chinese extreme pollution issues – We all live in the same world, but not every country plays by the same rules.

    Over the past 2-3 decades, both parties have sold out the bulk of the American citizens, who they're supposed to represent, by allowing the incursion of illegal aliens (cheap labor) and the "out-sourcing" floodgates to open wider and wider without taking any sensible measures to stem the tide.

    Our leaders are elected by the Citizens of the United States of America to represent the interests of those citizens and the country itself. – They are NOT elected by the Global Market Place or foreign citizens!

    That whole frigging shortsighted Wall Street mentality from the 1980's to the present has been what has destroyed the real American economy and the future of the American people.

    December 8, 2013 at 11:05 pm | Reply
  6. dmf

    The GOP in Congress led by House majority reached height of climax by voting 46th time to repeal Affordable Health care Law, government shut down for 16 days , trivial pursuit by only naming Post Offices , and a record of lowest number of bills passed by Congress ever , got them a 9 percent job approval rating . The U. S. has over $17 trillion national debt and over $85 trillion in unfunded government liabilities , and continual $1 trillion budget deficits . If there are 23 million unemployed / or under employed , 47 million under poverty line , and a seriously shrinking middle class for last six years , over 4 million long-term unemployed , the teenage joblessness rate is stuck at 24 per cent , and minorities
    unemployment is at over 25 percent . No economist in right frame of mind seriously would qualify , over 200, 000 employment number for November , as good news this week at this time . When GOP in Congress would get serious about economy with a continuing slow quarterly economic growth rate , and unemployment rate at 7 per cent ? There is an historical opportunity for both the administration and 113th Congress to be focused on fiscal policy and tax code reforms , health care costs reductions and immigration reforms etc . This would help economy improve sooner .

    December 8, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Reply
  7. The GOP Solution

    The GOP Solution: Turn all the Old, Sick, Poor, Non-white, Non-christian, Female, and Gay people into slaves. Then whip them until they are Young, Healthy, Rich, White, Christian, Male, and Straight. Or until they are dead. Then turn them into Soylent Green to feed the military during the next "unfunded/off-the-books" war. And don't forget the GOP all time favorite............TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!!!!!!!

    December 8, 2013 at 6:04 pm | Reply
    • pjoe

      You need to look at results. If you do, you will see Obama has an absolute horrible record on income equality.

      Between 2009 and 2012, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% ... or, 95% of the total gain, while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.

      Last year, the richest 10% received more than half of all income ... 50.5%, or the largest share since such record-keeping began in 1917.

      The quarterback of QE called it the biggest backdoor bailout of Wall Street in history. Wall Street and the 1% stuffed their pockets, while the 99% continues to struggle.

      Results matter more than rhetoric. Quit being an Obama patsy & start thinking for yourself.

      December 8, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Reply
      • James

        Actually the TARP bailouts were a Bush Policy. Eight years of "deregulation" under Reagan brought us the S&L bailouts. Eight years of more deregulation under Bush brought us the TARP bailouts. The only difference is the latter was an order of magnitude greater. When you allow the economy to be looted to the tune of trillions of dollars, you don't replace it overnight. The economy isn't good but it is a lot better than it was when Obama was elected. It's funny to hear Repulicans harping because Obama hasn't fixed the mess they created quickly enough.

        December 9, 2013 at 9:33 am |
  8. Pete

    All you hypocrites saying Pres.Obamas a liar but you'd better step out of your own glass house before it comes crashing down on yah,idiots..Repubs ran on jobs,jobs,jobs and have done nothing but obstruct anything close to inacting jobs since..Putting riders like the Keystone pipeline with jobs bills don't gets job bills passed when it was obvious that legislation got shot down months before and you think its going to pass with nobody looking...Wake up hypocrites your boats going down fast and at midterms even your corporate allies are treating you like lepards and that's being polite...

    December 8, 2013 at 10:28 am | Reply
  9. bob

    How can we worry about jobs when Obama lived with his uncle for three weeks before law school.

    December 7, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Reply
    • Scott

      Ummm.... I think you said that wrong...... I think you meant to say "Who can Believe the President on Jobs, when he lied to us about living with his Uncle along with just about every thing else he's ever said"

      December 8, 2013 at 1:59 pm | Reply
      • emskadittle

        scott, I know your republican but when will you all finely get sarcasm. ps colbert is not one of you

        December 9, 2013 at 9:22 am |
  10. Kerr

    How could anyone believe a word that comes from this obama govt? We do know the majority of jobs are service sector and 41% are govt expansion.

    December 7, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Reply
  11. Peppy

    If Obam really cared for the people he would resign, period.

    December 7, 2013 at 10:34 am | Reply
    • DJ Reality

      The what I think of all the republicans in congress. If they truly love America they should all resign.

      December 8, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Reply
    • The REAL TRUTH...

      Hmmm.. I thought the same thing of his buffooned, incompetent predecessor.. but patience glasshoppa.. he'll be gone in about 3 yrs.. should give the GOP plenty of heartburn...

      December 8, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Reply
  12. Richard Broderick, Jr.

    " Fmr. RNC Chief Economist Nancy Pfotenhauer, debated..."

    No she did not. She distorted with her talking points and then interrupted and talked over anyone who might try to "debate" her.

    It was an example of the worst of political discussion much like the results of her economic policy under George Bush.
    I won't waste my time to watch "crossfire" again.

    December 7, 2013 at 10:20 am | Reply
    • Burgermeister

      Exactly right. And it was precisely this lack of real discourse that got Crossfire axed the first time around.

      They just need Jon Stewart to point it out to them again.

      December 10, 2013 at 5:40 am | Reply
  13. Fred Griswold

    As long as guys like Mitt Romney keep bleeding American jobs to Asia, I don't think it matters much how many job creation bills there are in the Senate. Giving away your economy is one of the stupidest things you could do. Jennifer Granholm touched on this once toward the end of the show. If you don't have an economy, you won't have jobs available, so you can't pay your mortgage, you can't send your kids to college, you can't save for retirement and you can't even pay your taxes – think about that one. What we need is a comprehensive jobs plan, based on a real analysis of the problem, with goals, milestones, metrics etc. Nickel and dime stuff like these jobs bills in the Senate just won't cut it.

    December 7, 2013 at 4:26 am | Reply
    • Kerr

      You need to do a bit of reading to understand Romney, stop drinking the cool aid and learn to think for yourself

      December 7, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Reply
      • CaliforniaAC

        We understand Romney alright; he's a 1%er who despises the 47% of Americans who make most of the middle and low income families in this country.

        December 7, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • Peppy

      Freddy, freddy, freddy, come on, don't be a bammy and blame everyone but him. Job pivot, shovel ready jobs, my stimulus will take unemp to 5.6%, freddy you know better, bammy is the pres, too bad mitty isn't. P.S. I did know and live with uncle, but its not as big of lie as you can keep your plan ????

      December 7, 2013 at 5:44 pm | Reply
      • The REAL TRUTH...

        So what happened to "It's our turn".. turns out most Americans didn't think is was. so the shellacking ensured. Now you have what you have for the next 3 yrs.. then it's likely Hilary (if she choses to run). Meanwhile, the GOP scrabble for candidates that won't put their foot in their mouth, believe in legitimate rape, have a few more brain cells than Palin and Bachmann, and try to force their myopic religious views down our throats.

        December 8, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • ProtectAmericanJobs

      This new TPP "free trade" deal is Traitorous.

      On the US Department of Commerce's US Census Bureau website there's a graphic showing how our trade imbalance has gotten progressively worse over the entire period from 1989 to the present and how it's really accelerated at an increasely greater rate each year since 1999. We can thank "our leaders" and the WTO for that.

      See for yourself: www(dot)census(dot)gov(slash)foreign-trade(slash)balance(slash)c0004(dot)html

      Check it out and figure it out for yourself. If these "free trade" agreements were so good us, why did our trade deficit keep getting larger and larger during this span of time.

      Increasely way more money going out versus coming in every year.

      And how has this been working out for the American people and the Real American Economy?

      It's not rocket science.

      The ONLY REAL FIX for Our Country is to Raise Revenue by Bringing Back Jobs to US Citizens who Pay Income Tax.

      The bottom line is that "Our Government" has to protect domestic industry and the jobs that those industries provide. If they do that, the rest will take care of itself.

      We may have to pay a bit more for products made here in the USA by US citizens, but at least we'll still have jobs and a future for our children.

      December 10, 2013 at 12:55 am | Reply

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