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(CNN) – What started out as a standoff over land rights may be turning into a controversy over race.
Racist comments from Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy – who earlier this month appeared to win a highly publicized standoff against federal authorities over his two-decade long illegal grazing of cattle on public land – are giving Democrats a new weapon to attack some top Republicans who earlier came to Bundy's defense.
And the controversial comments also call into question moves by Fox News and some conservative media that highlighted the story and painted Bundy as a hero in his battle against federal authorities.
Bundy, 67, won his standoff against federal rangers after armed militiamen came to his side. Even with the incident over, Bundy continued to talk to a dwindling crowd of media from his ranch, about 100 miles northeast of Las Vegas.
The comments that sparked the latest controversy came this weekend when Bundy recalled to supporters about a time he drove by a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, according to a report from The New York Times.
"I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro," Bundy said, "and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids – and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch – they didn't have nothing to do. They didn't have nothing for their kids to do. They didn't have nothing for their young girls to do.
"And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?" Bundy continued. "They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I've often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn't get no more freedom. They got less freedom."
Thursday morning, hours after The New York Times story went viral, the Nevada Democratic Party put out a statement saying "These comments are reprehensible, and every Republican politician in the state of Nevada who tried to latch on to Cliven Bundy's newfound celebrity with TEA Partiers and the militia movement should be ashamed of their actions."
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Thursday that "Bundy revealed himself to be a hateful racist. But by denigrating people who work hard and play by the rules while he mooches off public land he also revealed himself to be a hypocrite."
We want you to weigh in: Harry Reid called supporters of Rancher Cliven Bundy “domestic terrorists.” Do you agree?
Vote by tweeting Yes or No using #Crossfire or by commenting on our Facebook post. View results below or through our Poptip results page.
Meanwhile, America's affirmative action president has time to criticize Mr. Bundy, but has not one word to say about 40 dead veterans from neglect by the VA Hospital in Phoenix. What a loser.
Yes you are LOL!!!
It really doesn’t matter whether a Nevada rancher, a NBA franchise owner, a pompous politician or just a red-necked blogger, their racist (and other) comments are just demonstrations of their out of control egos, even of their insecurities as they simply try hard to rationalize they are better than others. We all are motivated by our egos with the challenge being to control them, to check them, which actually seems to be harder for the more affluent or powerful as they prove to be more completely self-focused (as the bible states, “it is actually harder for the wealthy to enter heaven”). Humans simply evolved to be able to think, to reason and in so doing became totally aware of themselves, with pride and guilt developing naturally as opposite sides of the same ego coin. The challenge, both individually and collectively, is to have real quality and intelligence and to check the need to fault others, to flaunt our successes, the need to always have, or appear to have, more / better than others for the sole purpose of feeding the insatiable ego. As all religious doctrines profess, which is often ignored even by clergy who can find it easier to recruit, excite and control using egotistic hype (pious pride), humility is actually God’s way and is the discipline of truly conscience driven, quality people.
Who is surprised that he is a racist come on really. All of his 150 white church going conservative radicals showed up from all over the US with guns wow if that ain't the best country in the world i don't know what is. I guess god was right behind them cheering them on. Big Big problems at home need to fix asap. For those of you from the south asap means as soon as possible. I guess the African Americans were to busy picking cotton to attend this fiasco.
The BLM was about to confiscate (and likely slaughter) his CATTLE.
The cattle were IN THE ACT of illegally grazing on federally owned land. They had been doing that for 20 years. Every court case sided with the feds against Bundy who just ignored them and kept ILLEGALLY grazing the cattle. The BLM wasn't going to do anything to him. They weren't going on his property. They were ONLY operating on federal land.
If he had kept his cattle on HIS land... or had paid for the right to graze his cattle on Federal land... there would have never been a problem. But he thought he could STEAL the use of the land and he did just that for 20 years.
How can ANYONE support this guy?
I have to laugh at the Militia and the Rancher none of them want to recognize the United States Government, but at the same time want to be covered under our Constitution. Can someone please inform them that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorry boy, NO Amendment 1, NO Amendment 2 NO Amendment 5 or any other rights you want even though you claim not to be one of us Americans. Sorry guys, you may want to check with that other Traitor Snowden and see how his American rights are going for him in Russia. LMAO I say if you don't want to have our military stomping on your heads, you might want to think about putting your pellet guns away and start obeying our laws. You people are fighting for the rights of a criminal, not hardly worth going to prison over, cause that is exactly where you will end up if you shoot or kill one of the BLM. There is a law on the books, that even if you didn't do the shooting, you can also be convicted of being at a crime scene when it happened and you can also be charged with murder. Think real hard if this rancher is really worth you going to prison?????
There is no there there on IRS/Benghazi. Issa has been digging for years. If there was soooooooo much , why hadn't he found anything?
They "didn't have nothing", Mr. Bundy? Then what did they have? If they didn't have nothing, they must have had something, so what was it? Try to speak correct english, instead of white trailer trash, so we'll know what the hell you're talking about.
I believe he said he was in sin and apologized, we forgive people who have done much worse. He had many chances or choices, we all do.
The thing that sparks this is the media, look at how they covered this and they come out in hatred because of his actions an his words.
At the same time the media is focused on the death of people on mh370, the Korean ferry sinking , wars, crime and they have show after show of screaming woman wishing people would be put to death or people to go to war, this rancher shows one dead calve and the media culture goes sick and calls it horrible.
You are all caught up in being media puppet show.
CNN is a shameless bunch of hypocrites.
And Bundy is an ignorant racist.
They say it takes one to know one. So what's your excuse?
Ummmm, gee Gundy, seems as though you have the whole ignorance thing down pat. From your gross distortion of history to your knee-jerk reflexive comments about anyone and everything, seems as though you hate any attempt to get rid of racial distinctions. Maybe this goes with your hatred of how liberals have supposedly been running things for 100 years. I guess you miss the good ole days when Plessy vs Ferguson was the law of the land, over 100 years ago. Quit trying to make yourself out to be anything other than an ignorant, lazy fool who can't bear the thought of your fantasy world disappearing.
The BLM was about to slaughter this guy over a land dispute imposed upon his family by Dirty Harry Reid, but it's okay because he's a racist. If he was a man of color who hated white folks, he'd be a liberal folk hero.
In CNN's eyes, you can be a murder victim, but if you used the N word, you're the guilty one.
After 20 years of not paying rent he is welfare cowboy.
if thats the case he will fit right in with the democratic party
Funny how there's so many law abiding citizens who never say anything bad about another race. My haven't we become a nation of saints. As far a not paying his grazing fees, it seems the left refused to educate themselves, of course. The party of squawk and blame. Put downs and nasty remarks are their specialty.
Actually Bundy vs Feds conflict re: nonpayment of very cheap way below market grazing fees has nothing at all to do with Democrats or Republicans. Conflict is only a legal issue. Now you say the left were not educating themselves. But unfortunately just from your comments that you posted. it appears you may have not educated yourself either. If you have, then I apologize. And by way, I am registered Republican.
Please ready my blog post. I have the conflict researched extensively.
All the other ranchers are paying their rent, what's wrong with mr welfare rancher?
That's just it. There are no other ranchers in the area because of the exuberant fees implemented by the BLM to get the ranchers off the land. Harry Reid and his family have deals involved with that land and they want it for themselves. Bundy was the only one who stood up to the federal government and he's the only one left.
I think you have that a little wrong. Why is it that you choose to blame the Liberals for what this cattle grazing thief has done for the last twenty years? He is the one that didn't pay, he is the one who got up in front of the cameras and shot off his racist mouth, but you Mr. High and Mighty right away want to put the blame for all of this on Harry Reid and the Liberals. Now please tell everyone in this Country how the liberals and Harry Reed had anything to do with what the BLM did while performing their duties as was put forth by the courts...Please let all of us know, were are waiting for your reply. No more lies please...
The most racist people I ever met were Mexicans then blacks, The Mexicans were making fun of how dumb and ignorant white people were for going and fighting wars while the came and stole jobs and resources and continued to laugh about our dead soldiers, yes the Mexicans my friends worked with were all thinking this was funny.I have nothing but disgust for a people that come here for the sole purpose to steal from the American people and laugh at our dead gringoo soldiers while they pillage our jobs and resources.
Go whine (in better English, I hope) on fox.
First of all I would like to say I completely understand the cultural and social beliefs of rurl America. I was born and raised on farm in rural eastern Nebraska. There were only 75 in whole high school. We raised dairy cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep, horses. We grew corn, soybeans, alfalfa, wheat, oats, etc. By the age of eight I helped milk our 75 dairy cattle prior to going to school and after school. Learned to drive tractor cultivating corn, bailing hay, combining wheat/oats, picking corn/soybeans, etc. I was in dairy 4-H, horse 4-H, was on county dairy judging team all 4 years of high school, competitively participated in barrel racing and pole bending, goat tying at 4-H events, and did several rodeos barrel racing. I also played in the sports offered for girls at that time. I too was a western girl, with many cowboy hats , boots, etc. Loved my horses, and was well regarded for my expertise. Love that live, and still have many fond memories.
But then it was off to University of Nebraska for pre-nursing. Was on College Rodeo team w barrel racing being my best event. Only competed at U of N rodeo and Kansas State, as academics were difficult and needed a high GPA. Did get 2nd at U of N, and at Kansas State came in 3rd. Then it was off to Omaha for nursing school, and my beloved barrel horse suddenly and unexpectedly died. After nursing school two of my fellow graduate and I headed to work in CA, where I met my husband. And where I still remain today in Marin County. Love it here in this small town, 12 miles from SF. But at same time still love the rural live too. Need top stay close to my married grown children.
Why am I telling all of you this??? Mainly to help you understand where I came from when I post blog comments re: Bundy vs Fed conflict. I fully understand Cliven Bundy and his feelings, but I disagree with him as is not the way I was raised. Being honest, abiding by laws, and standing by your word were gospel.
Also I am 69, two years older than Cliven Bundy. I just retired 4 years ago pc many years working as certified Diabetes Care Manager on a part time basis of 20 hrs/week. I lost my dear beloved husband 15 years ago to cancer.
Points I would like to make
(1) Yes, Cliven Bundy"s statements were racist. And his spoken words were hurtful to many people in US. None of us had any magic genie to see what was in his heart. But that is irrelevant. It the words used that are the key. Even I grew up knowing never to say such words.
(2) Are Cliven Bundy and his anti – government heavily armed extreme right militia/sovereign citizen/ etc groups who presented an armed and ready to shoot resistance against federal police agents threatening a gun fight unless Bundy's cattle released domestic terrorist???? I have analyzed US law re: domestic terrorism. Legally statues of law are somewhat loosely worded as I see it. Is sort of toss up. I would hesitate calling them that. But they were so close, it was quite scary. I watched whole coverage that day. But I will say, I saw Bundy give the orders for the protesters to close down I-15, and go get his cattle released. Protester snipers on the bridge, and in the hills had their automatic rifles pointed at the heads of federal police agents. Feds pointed no guns at protesters in the multiple news coverage I kept switching to. These protesters were indeed dangerous ticking time bombs just waiting for reason for a gun fight. These individuals were very close, if legally they hadn't already crossed over the legally defined line to be considered domestic terrorists already. Most state police/sheriff's officers/etc. I know of, if confronted by people pointing guns at them would actually arrest those people and charge them. Thank goodness feds decided to back down to prevent violence. Was a safety concern first and foremost decision.
(3)Cliven Bundy and his long conflict with feds - I have read all pertaining court documents, read Nevada constitution, reviewed treaty when US government bought land from Mexico in 1848, and pertaining laws when Nevada became state in 1864. Nevada actually agreed to letting US government own 80% of land there. It seems like they could have gotten more of the land, but gave up half of land offered in negotiations, as they wanted certain areas specifically. I would say they were not very good at this deal making process as most other western states got more land.
I also found government documents re: Bundy's father buying main Bundy Ranch in 1948, saw Bundy's father was born in Arizona 1922,.and then came to Bunkerville area around 1940. Got married- actually had 2 wives and 14 children. Am nt sure what happened to one wife?? Cliven was born 1946 in Las Vegas. Saw Cliven Bundy's so-claimed other relatives were actually settled on other sections of land in Bunkerville and Mesquite area but none were located close to main Bundy Ranch. Also saw deed documents indicated water rights were only sold for the main Bundy Ranch, not for the federal land, and none were registered with state of Nevada. The Bundy Ranch is presently jointly owned by two trusts – Bundy's fathers trust and the Bundy Family Trust(which I assume is Cliven Bundy). The Leavitts that Bundy's father bought main Bundy Ranch from in 1848 were very very distant relatives. So distant one wouldn't know related unless one researches family tree real well. Bundy Ranch when bought by Bundy's father in 1948 had no buildings , was only open land – building started after, and house was finished 1954.
Bundy cattle then started grazing on federal land around 1954 per court record documents. At first it was free for Bundy family. But then under Ronald Reagan DC politicians passed new law requiring a grazing fees be paid. And Bundys always paid grazing fees over the many years to Feds until 1993 when Cliven Bundy stopped paying the cheap way below market fees.
Feds are indeed the land owners or landlords per US and Nevada laws since 1848, and they have a legal right to change/set/revise rent agreements as allowed per present existing law. Doesn't make any difference if private individual/corporation/federal government- property owners are the landlords. In 1993 more new US laws were passed by DC politicians due all the lobbyists/special interest groups pursuing their own special interests for these federal owned lands. The very cheap below market rent charged by Feds is great, but comes with negatives too, as renters must share with the other multipurpose use of federal owned land. Now in 1993 special groups got Desert Tortoise declared as protected and the amount of cattle grazing on Bunkerville allotment was decreased to 150 cattle. Cliven Bundy refused to pay fees because of that, but continued to graze cattle there in defiance all for free.
Cliven Bundy cattle ranching business model – privately owned land 160 acres versus huge number of rented acres(know 500,000 acres closed for cattle roundup- but could never get precise acreage of Bunkerville allotment – but am familiar with cattle ranching too – would guess it could range from 1,000- to way higher – my guess is much higher as land is desert and very little vegetation exist there. Only the main Bundy Ranch is green as it's located next to river and has plenty of water for irrigation. This is Mojave Desert country. As one who is familiar farming and cattle ranching business, re: rental land versus owned land – do see his practiced business model is very risky and the balance is almost to point he will eventually most likely fail. Relying on such high rental acre to operate his business successfully carries high risk for various unpredictable problems. Hugest and most dangerous problem is landowner may not rent to you when rental agreement expires. And legally that is within the owners right, makes no difference who they may be. The farmers and ranchers I knew in Nebraska typically used only very little rental land. As I see it, Bundy's cattle ranching business model practiced appears doomed to fail from get go. And Bundy can't run his cattle on the 160 acre main ranch as too many. Now he's got problems due utilizing too much rental land.
Bundy's claims that his ancestors inherited rights to land and water. No such records ever existed. A Las Vegas newspapers checked with Clark County and state of Nevada. And in court document records no US government documents ever had document records for such. Multiple Federal Courts did not uphold Bundy's claims for pre-emptive ancestor rights as he had no documented proof of evidence supporting his claims.. Bundy's father only purchased Bundy Ranch in 1948. None of the other so-called Bundy relatives in that area ever settled on Bundy Ranch or near the ranch. And that involves wives relatives also.
In 1998 Federal Government finally filed claim in Federal Court against Cliven Bundy's failure to pay grazing fees. Federal Court has the legal jurisdiction to hear case, as this case involves Federal owned Land rental grazing fees nonpayment. Court records indicate Feds produced government records of Feds and Nevada as evidence of proof US Government owns the disputed land. Bundy does not, nor did he have any valid legal claims for land. Bundy lost case. What I did notice in documents feds were already worried about Bundy's repeated threats of possible violence even back 1998. Lots of document evidence attachments of bills sent to Bundy, Fed notices sent Bundy, etc etc.
Judges decision was Bundy was ordered to remove cattle, etc. I think I recall seeing Bundy filed an appeal, but also lost. Then appears not much was done except for sending more bills involving new fees total, plus the added and growing court ordered fines per head of cattle and the compounded interest. In 2012 US government again took Bundy to court for noncompliance and more new court orders. Bundy was there in court too. Feds got order to impound, seize, and sell Bundy's cattle as long as legal provisions of notices legally abided by. Only way for Bundy to keep his cattle was to pay bill. Bundy repeatedly failed to comply with all requests for negotiations as seen in court document evidence. A cattle roundup was planned in 2012, but was called off due fear of violence from Bundy plus other things it seems. Then Feds filed another claim July 2013 in Federal Court for more updated court orders, etc. Another Claim filed in Federal Court Oct 2013. Bundy lost all of the court cases. Bundy did file one claim to Federal Court requesting dismissal of case based on grounds case was state case not a federal case. Of course he's undeniably legally wrong. Feds own the land so it is Federal Court. What I found interesting is Federal judge hearing case is Republican, Mormon same as Bundy, attended BYU and then went to UC Berkeley Law School, has lived in area for years - so would assume Bundy had a judge that may have held some personal bias for Bundy – but judge couldn't rule in Bundy's favor. Feds court cases against Bundy were very strong legally. And as such Bundy lost all the Federal Court cases.
Conclusions - failure to pay grazing fees, plus fines, compounded interest bills since 1993 will legally eventually come to either seizure of some property, or other available legal options. What everyone should fully know is judge in Oct 2013 ordered that Bundy could not in anyway interrupt or resist the impounding of his cattle if such occurs per Bundy's failure to comply by court orders Judge will not like that Bundy and his heavily armed protesters did indeed interrupt and resist with a threat of possible gun violence toward Fed police agents that Saturday. How that eventually will be addressed in court is unknown.
As my Dad, the Nebraska farmer, always said, and how most farmers around him felt – one doesn't pay bills – you're out!!! Period. My husband and I played by those same rules too. Bundy didn't pay his bills to Federal Government. Rest of his purported claims are legally irrelevant as already shot down in court multiple times. Words can sound great, but one still legally needs to be legally correct. Bundy isn't.
Darn Bundy, I would have loved standing up for for a good ole' cattle rancher standing up against big government! But I can't.
And still don't understand why Bundy did not pursue the correct avenues he could have used to try to get law changed since 1993. He could have joined Nevada Cattleman Association(doesn't belong), National Cattleman Association, plus utilized their DC lobbyists, gotten supporters together- and pressured DC politicians to change those laws detrimental to ranchers. Numbers and pressure can work.
Well sure Sharon,
Old Gunderson been thru 3 World Wars, 2 county Fairs, and Corn Husking Contest! Not much you can tell old Gunderson. Our Federal Government, maybe just some Rogue elements invaded the Gibson Guitar Company in Nashville because of some problem with the wood Gibson Imported. and confiscated it. There were never any formal charges but Gibson never got the wood back and paid a huge fine. Maybe Bundy is wrong but when our Government acts like Small Town Cops running a Speed Trap you should be concerned. That is what it looks like again, now in Nevada. Maybe making your own way in the country is no longer in Vogue but some people aren't ready to bow down to the "Collective" just yet.
Enjoyed your post!!!! Sorry to hear about Gibson. Hope Gibson sued feds, and would assume those confiscating wood were FBI agents.
Smile – I go back to farm to see my sister in Mead, Nebraska frequently. Is great, and still have many friends and relatives there. I only stay here in Mill Valley as I have two grown married kids and four grandkids in area. But I also love Mill Valley too.
As I said I sure would have liked to get behind this good ole" cowboy cattle rancher. Unfortunately since he didn't pay his grazing fees, lost in multiple court cases where he got his days in court – I just can't. Wasn't way I was raised, or lived my life. Sadly all of the research I did and found supports my position, I feel. Darn!
That good Sharon,
You have Topnotch Lawyers in San Francisco and old Gunderson have good buddies Smith and Wesson, as well as Samuel Colt, and ? Winchester in closet. Well not really. Have you ever heard that song Philadelphia Lawyer by Maddox Brothers and Rose?
So how old are you? Yes, I am familiar with guns, I come from a Nebraska hunting family. Unfortunately they gave up on me as a kid, as I refused to kill anything. I was more into nursing/caring for animals. Always had my favorite pets. My sister and I still laugh and joke about my hysterical fits so I didn't have to shoot/kiil any animal. My sister and her hubby and kids still go out to their ranch in western Nebraska and hunt.
Gundy, you're also the one who claims that liberals have had an uninterrupted run for a century. Its pretty obvious that you are either willfully ignorant, delusional, or stupid. Take your pick. The man has been mooching off of us for over 2 decades, and, as someone who rails on about a Nanny state, you should be condemning him, Apparently all you are is a shill for whatever rightie whack-job idea comes down the pike.
You,my friend, are not telling the truth. The BLM came in ready for a fight. They had snipers pointed at protestors, they had German Shepherd dogs which my father saw attack prisoners in a World War II German prisoner of war camp, they put people in an area set apart for 1st amendment supporters. Harry Reid had his sticky fingers all over this deal. At one time fifty ranchers lived in that are and the BLM systematcially ran everyone of them away with high fees and regulations.Just remember you are next if you believe that they are right. They can claim your house, your property, for anything they want if they eye your property for something.
Susan, I am sorry you feel I did not tell the truth. I am not sure why you are attacking me though and that is perplexing. Actually I tried to be very truthful to the best of my ability. Could I make a few mistakes, ye. That I will apologize for. Most is accurate though, and those I will not apologize for since they are the real facts. I have extensively researched Bundy vs Feds conflict. and really attempted to stick to legal aspects or facts pertinent to helping/assist me learn more of the real facts. And I also attempted to post only the facts and tried to be as objective as I could and tried to discard emotions/partisan politics. Almost all of my info can be verified through research.
The Protest Demonstration against Federal police agents video on a Wednesday that went viral -
I am quite familiar with the viral video that went around where protesters were blocking the federal police agents, the contracted trucks from leaving, and then became confrontational to federal police agents. Protesters were quite aggressive, angry, and repeatedly encroached way to close to agents. Yes, they had police dogs in front as a way to control the crowd, and most had stun guns drawn as warning to keep distance, and repeatedly asked protesters to back up to allow the trucks to leave. One police dog did bite one protester who got too close , and at least one person was tazed who got real close and police felt threatened. Also there was one lady that got pushed down to get her out of way as truck was leaving. That was a little too rough of push though. But was better than her getting run over by that truck. I actually reviewed that video multiple times, and really personally felt police there, did pretty good overall job controlling some very angry difficult to manage protesters. Didn't see any actual police brutality committed upon any of the protesters. This protest involves two sides – angry aggressive protesters and police agents. And sadly just being part of a protest like this may definitely pose higher risk for your own personal safety. Police agents too.
Re: Your Other Comments
(1) "The BLM came in ready for a fight."
Actually Bundy caused the extra police agents to be called in as he had sent a letter the end of March with threats to multiple agencies. The court record documents reveal that Bundy has made threat of violence several times since 1993.
(2)" They had snipers pointed at protestors,"
I watched TV news all that day and never saw federal agents pointing guns at the protesters. I know several stations did show protesters had their automatic rifles scoped aimed at federal police agents. Yes, there is a possibility I did miss that on the various 24 hour news outlets.
(3)"they had German Shepherd dogs which my father saw attack prisoners in a World War II German prisoner of war camp"
I already addressed this above. Actually police German Shepherd dogs are used alot by police out here for protest demonstration to help control crowds. I am not sure about other parts of country. But the dogs are a good utilized tactical deterrent which will hopefully help control protesters.
(4)" they put people in an area set apart for 1st amendment supporters."
Actually Feds did not put people in 1st amendments areas. They set up an area for that though. I totally agree that was not good idea, even though I do understand the safety rationale behind creating this area. That area was abandoned after governor declared not fair, and there was big backlash.
(5) Harry Reid had his sticky fingers all over this deal.
Factually Harry Reid was not involved in this the situation we watched occurring at all. Plus BLM has been legally dealing with Bundy since 1993. Nor was it due to some deal Reid made with Chinese or solar panel projects. Those have been debunked already. Politifact rated that "pants on fire." Las Vegas Review Journal did in depth investigation and also debunked as well. Now Reid long time aide is now head of BLM the assigned agency of Federal Government to manage the federal owned lands there. But he only was voted in by Senate after BLM had already started the cattle roundup per court orders due Bundy's failure to remove his own cattle. The court orders to remove cattle,do cattle roundup, seize cattle, etc. can be found in the online federal Court documents. You will have to check dates though, as there were several. Orders did change over the years. And must review chronologically..
(6)"At one time fifty ranchers lived in that are and the BLM systematcially ran everyone of them away with high fees and regulations.
I actually addressed alot of what you are claiming above. The grazing fees were not high at all. Fees charged were very low at around $1.50-60 per head for one month. Typical fee charges by private Nevada landowner and by state of Nevada are around $15-16 per head per month. As I explained these low fees are great, but they also come with some huge negatives too. These federal owned land renters must also deal with the multipurpose use of land and all the demand by other special interest group pushing their agenda to DC politicians to pass a laws for their pursued goals. Also explained renting farm land/grazing land from a landowner, no matter who they are, is high risk. Farmer/rancher may not be able to rent land once rental agreement runs out. Landowner may not rent to them in future. Legally the landowner reserves right to rent, not rent, whatever etc.He/they legally own land. Farmers/ranchers in Nebraska actually don't like to use much rental land as part of their business model practice because of these unpredictable business harmful risks.
(7)"Just remember you are next if you believe that they are right. They can claim your house, your property, for anything they want if they eye your property for something."
I find you wording appears to cover alot of many various points. Now regarding whether I feel "they" are right??? I assume you are referring to Bundy vs US government court cases involving Bundy's unpaid grazing fees. Bundy has had multiple chances in the multiple Federal Court cases, and unfortunately he lost all of them. Legally Bundy lost. Feds cases were legally veyr strong. Bundy lost, because he has not paid grazing fees since 1993. One may not like the results, but unfortunately per the law US government own. Bundy presently owes approximately $1,000,00+- for unpaid razing fees, and court ordered fines per head per day and compounded interest.
As for US government coming to seize my house. No, that will not legally occur. I own house outright. I don't owe US government or state government money. Nor would my house be seized under federal or state or city imminent domain laws either. When we bought years ago, we made sure house located so that would not occur. I am well aware of state and federal real estate laws. Plus I also have topnotch attorneys in SF.
That was some good reading. Thank you so much! I am sure now that Cliven is a thief, I, mean THIEF!
Thank you. I appreciated your kind words. Since I am now retired and review google news frequently, managed to catch one of first reports on this conflict and my little "light bulb" went off to research all out. My big interest in conflict definitely had to do with me and my fond memories of being raised on farm in Nebraska.
Then conflict went national big time. Glad I was able to help you, as I really tried to present the real facts. And info posted can be verified through research on line, but will take one some time as I found out. Best to you.
Today, if a comment is perceived to shed a negative light on someone black, it's racist. Websters defines a racist as a person with a prejudicial belief that one race is superior to another. There was nothing in Mr. Bundy's statement that states directly that he feels blacks are inferior nor, in my own opinion, does he lead anyone to believe that he feels that way. If the "race card dealers" would take a moment to understand what he's saying, they would understand that he's speaking of the disservice the government has done to black people in general under the guise of "freeing them".
You sound as ignorant as Bundy.
Slavery destroyed the Black family unit ... and this has proved difficult to resolve. Until the family unit becomes more stable, they will continue to struggle (just as any race would).
White racists not only destroyed blacks, it destroyed this country and took us to war.
I would say Clive Bundy is questioning the effectiveness of our governments subsidies programs, and not racism!
"The word “Negro” is used in the English-speaking world to refer to a person of black ancestry or appearance. The word negro denotes 'black' in the Spanish and Portuguese, derived from the ancient Latin word, niger, 'black', which itself ultimately is probably from a Proto-Indo-European root *nekw-, 'to be dark', akin to *nokw- 'night'.
"Negro" superseded "colored" as the most polite terminology, at a time when "black" was more offensive. This usage was accepted as normal, even by people classified as Negroes, until the later Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s. One well-known example is the identification by Martin Luther King, Jr. of his own race as 'Negro' in his famous 1963 speech I Have a Dream."
Why not give the entire interview?
"“Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know, I understand that they come over here against our Constitution and cross our borders. But they are here and they are people. And I’ve worked side by side with a lot of them. Don’t tell me they don’t work and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes," Bundy said. "And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structures than most of us white people. ... We need to have those people join us and be with us, not not come to our party.”"
This shows what a stacked deck it is against conservatives in the media. They align this clown to all conservatives because of his standing up to the feds overreaching. Contrast this with the IRS scandal. What's more important? Yet do you read any serious ongoing stories about it? No. They flop like dying fish towing the Washington line. Ditto Benghazi and this attorney general.
Whoever makes this old man a racist is just plain shallow. Listen to what he says as if he were your grandfather....You people that don't LISTEN to what he MEANS to say. He is a very plain man....A spade is a spade no more no less. Don't be so shallow as to not understand where he is coming from. If 10 people showed up all black or hispanic he would offer to feed them and have not the first feeling of what you people are trying to make him.
You voted for Palin didn't you. That explains it then.
"You voted for Palin didn't you
You voted for Palin didn't you. Read the Ryan Budget to see how the GOP feel about the Old, Sick, and Poor people."
Ha, ha, ha! I voted for John McCain and proud of it.
You voted for Obama didn't you! Read about, Assault on individual freedom, assault on religious freedom, share the wealth, lie to the American people, turning America into a world laughing stock, spying on our own, blocking conservative organizations, NSA, IRS, Benghazi, destruction of the world best health care system, division with hate filled rhetoric, just to name afew!
Where are your other copy/paste junk? Ha, ha, ha,
" The Profile Of The Typical Republican Vote"
" The GOP Solution"
" GOP Prayer – GOPers, Read Together and Out Loud With Me"
@countingdown – Copy and Paste doesn't make it any less true. You must be proud to represent a group of people (GOP) who hate the Old, Sick, and Poor people. Remember, you will be Old, Sick, and probably already Poor some day. Keep voting against your own interests.
There is no reading between the lines here. He is your typical redneck right wing nutcase. If anyone is an abuser of our subsidy system, it's him. He should be arrested and tried just like anyone else who breaks the law. Conservatives talk about the constitution and personal responsibility then stand up for this very well off squatter. Just imagine if everyone who did something illegal just shouted they don't recognize the government, arm themselves and get off the hook. Everyone, Democratic, Republican and Independent should be united on this one. If you don't want to live in the US, you have every right to leave, however, if you live here then you must obey laws regardless of your personal views.
To all you obtuse Rethuglicans and Faux news, your shameful applause for this racist thug is an embarrassment which you rightly deserve. Also to Jason Bullock his body guard. Have you no shame , no self worth, dude you"re the biggest embarrassment of them all. I view you as a traitor and a fool, have some respect for yourself.
What I am saying is that all we Americans are trading one form of slavery for another. All of us are in some measure slaves of the federal government. Through their oppressive tactics of telling the ranchers how many cows they can have on their land, and making that number too low to support a ranch, the BLM has driven every rancher in Clark County off the land, except me. The IRS keeps the people of America in fear, and makes us all work about a third or a half of the year before we have earned enough to pay their taxes. This is nothing but slavery from January through May. The NSA spies on us and collects our private phone calls and emails. And the government dole which many people in America are on, and have been for much of their lives, is dehumanizing and degrading. It takes away incentive to work and self respect. Eventually a person on the dole becomes a ward of the government, because his only source of income is a dole from the government. Once the government has you in that position, you are its slave.
I am trying to keep Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream alive. He was praying for the day when he and his people would be free, and he could say I’m free, free at last, thank God I’m free at last! But all of us here America, no matter our race, are having our freedom eroded and destroyed by the federal government because of its heavy handed tactics. The BLM, the IRS, the NSA–all of the federal agencies are destroying our freedom. I am standing up against their bad and unconstitutional laws, just like Rosa Parks did when she refused to sit in the back of the bus. She started a revolution in America, the civil rights movement, which freed the black people from much of the oppression they were suffering. I'm saying Martin Luther King's dream was not that Rosa could take her rightful seat in the front of the bus, but his dream was that she could take any seat on the bus and I would be honored to sit beside her. I am doing the same thing Rosa Parks did–I am standing up against bad laws which dehumanize us and destroy our freedom. Just like the Minutemen at Lexington and Concord, we are saying no to an oppressive government which considers us to be slaves rather than free men.
I invite all people in America to join in our peaceful revolution to regain our freedom. That is how America was started, and we need to keep that tradition alive.
Cliven D. Bundy
Bundy has said nothing that hasn't been said for the last 50 plus years. But I digress. look at the problems in Detroit and Chicago. Not exactly anything to brag about.
And you are certain that there aren't any white run cities that failed? Heck, this entire country went into a financial melt down that affected the entire world under the leadership of George Bush but you point out Detroit and Chicago as being failures?
Your last name is slagg. That's funny. Your views are stupid.
No. Your comment say more about stupidity than his point. Grow up dude. It is your kind that make this country puke.
Hector is simply a malcontent who was sticking up for Todd Akin and his ilk 2 years ago. Anything that can keep us at each other's throats, he will favor and then blame you. He is a classic case of projection and misinformation.
I see the Real Brain is posting now. Guess I better leave. You mad now Paine?
The comments were wrong, but so was the attack on him in the first place. The first doesnt excuse the second. Stay strong.
They didn't attack him.
They were attempting to confiscate his cattle that were actively grazing on land he didn't own and didn't pay for the right to use.
This is the same as somone parking illegally having their car towed. The difference is if someone pulled a gun and pointed it at the tow truck driver who was trying to tow the car away, people wouldn't have the sympathy they do for Bundy.
If Bundy followed the laws of his state and country, none of this would happen. But he's violating those laws. It's only a matter of time before he's rightfully imprisoned.
If you didn't pay your taxes how would you feel if a swat team of snipers and armed agents bore down on your house? It was the heavy handed tactics of the BLM that is the problem. There are steps that are taken before any of that is needed. It should have been handled by county then state. Not some federal land management unit. They didn't bring out their guns till they felt threatened.
They didn't go to his house.
They didn't even go on his land.
Those are facts you seem to either not want to admit or be unaware of. They were confiscating cattle on FEDERALLY OWNED LAND. Bundy and his people came on that land to protect Bundy's cattle... that were actively grazing on federal land. Federal agency collecting cows on federal land... after 20 years of warning the guy to quit grazing his cattle on federal land or pay for the right to do so.
If I parked my car on the grass at Cowpens Battlefield (which I live fairly close to and is a national park), I would expect at some point for a federal employee to get my car towed. If I sat with a rifle on the hood of my car... I'd expect them to come heavily armed to tow the car.
He had 20 years to stop grazing the cattle. That's how long the federal government tried to get him to stop. And in the end they didn't come for him or even come on his property. They were confiscating the cattle that were CURRENTLY GRAZING ON FEDERAL PROPERTY WITHOUT PERMISSION. How can you not think that was justified? If anything they were too easy on him... the crook deserves to go to jail.
Those of you trying to spend this thing favorablebly toward Bundy gues what?
BUNDY IS WRONG, In the real America we pay as we go or we pay on credit, but pay, we do. Bundy will pay the fees.
So unless you going to pay them for him, call him what he is – Wrong. Ok, Im done with this.
Got to love good reporting. Good balanced reporting doesn't lead me to believe what the reporter wishes me to believe. Rather, it gives me information so I can better determine what is going on. Today, we tie multiple issues together to come to a single determination. There are two issues. One is the use of public land and all that has gone into that and this mans roll in it. there are many stories out there that state the government and politicians have hidden agendas. We need to know that and we need to know why this man suddenly refused to pay for the sue of the land all of a sudden. After three generations of paying to use land he just stops? So, what is the CNN spin, what is the Fox spin- kinda s u c k s that where we get the news becomes the argument as to what we know or don't know and who is smart and not. Racist remarks...this is a funny one. I'm sixty. Much of the common language I was taught has been revamped and leaves me a disgusting bigot, racist, intolerant neanderthal if I use it. At my age, being tongue tied is something one learns to live with and some have less a problem remembering than I and some have more trouble. To expect that a 90 year old mans language he uses tells us what is in his heart certainly has not spent much time with an aging parent (mine still cause me to blush with his language) of other person brought up with a different dictionary than our children have been. All those in their forties and thirties and before, you will understand what I am saying when you fall into the holes changing language causes (especially when we purposely change word meanings to politically trap others). So, of all that I have read and seen, I see people pigeon holing this 90 year old man who grew up in a world we can only imagine, based on the use of his language without attempting to learn about him and what is truly in his heart. Personally, we do a disservice to each other in doing this to this person as we do it to each other. We wait and hope for a slip of the tongue so we can destroy without knowing what it is we are destroying. The saddest part of this story is not so much what this man is saying, it is our care and lack to understand if his words match up with his heart and it is our joy to use words that MAY not exemplify what this man means as a club to beat him up. It is possible he is kinder than us but we will never know because we will not take responsibility for our end of the communication stream by ensuring we are not allowing our prejudices and understandings and upbringing are preventing us from understanding him. What is it about us, what are we covering up, that we enjoy seeing others as racists? He may be...but then he may not be. I cannot judge as I do not know the man only what others wish us to know of him.
The man uttering the racist statements was 67. He grew up when the language changes took place and was well aware of that (I know because I am 62 and remember quite well the Civil Rights movement of the 60s and this man does too if he was alive that is). He just is a plain racist. May have some redeeming qualities as all people are nether all bad or all good but the man is racist.
Thank you. I so strongly agree with you. I remember when I was a teen my mother made excuses for my grandparents racism claiming they where old and set in their ways and not to blame. Now in my 40s, I feel I can finally call BS on that. You are never too old to learn and grow and become a better person. Anyone that claims otherwise is a liar.
I have to disagree. What did he say that was racist? Did him using the word negro cause the stir? Did him saying that currently there is a problem with abortions and fatherless relationships? Sure he could have worded things a little better however so could our President and sure as heck our Vice President. He didn't mean anything by what he was saying except that the fact when you have government step in to "help" it usually ends up doing the opposite. That is because the focus is on votes to winn an election rather than the actual heart felt focus on the people.
While I fully agree with the portion of your comment which bears reference to discernment of information, I frankly don't quite understand the remainder.
Why should I, (or anyone for that matter), care about the selective personality traits of this man? It's like the old saying... "you only have one time to make a first impression." Perhaps we should wait around for Mr. Bundy to share his fondness of Ghandi or his Mother Teresa-like qualities.
I'm 47 Tim, and I learned that you can make yourself look like a fool far quicker than you can make yourself appear brilliant!
I'm still a little confused as to what Mr. Bundy's tirade even remotely had to do with grazing rights. So while I sympathize with you Tim, and those among you who are having difficulty keeping up with the transformation of the English language, I have to ask- what on earth does Mr. Bundy's warped, sociological drivel have to do with the case against him?
I think I have the answer, and it's as old as stupidity itself! It's called good, old-fashioned racism! It's that "furnace" that gets lit when individuals like Bundy need something, (or someone) to lash out at. You know, it's that "voice" that you suppress deep down until the pressure's on and you need to assign blame upon everything's that's wrong in the world! And for people like Bundy... it's "the negro!"
So please spare us with your lesson on the handicaps and speech infirmities of the aged. The wise don't buy it. Any human with a brain can make their mouth say anything, and since you appear to be an individual who has picked up a Bible before, I'm sure you can appreciate Luke 6:45, where we're told..."out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks!" which is precisely what happened here.
Mainstream media. Lazy reporters with incomplete, and sometimes inaccurate, articles. That's what the news has become. If you want the whole truth of what was said, watch the entire video. Mainstream media only reports snippets of the real picture to suit their own views. Don't depend on mainstream media only. Get off your duffs and do research before agreeing with an article.
Right. And FOX and their little cohorts have ALWAYS been even-handed, right? You don't want information, you want affirmation of your beliefs. Please stop with the attacks on the media, because all that tells us is that you can't handle the truth when it goes against YOUR narrative.
The GOP "base" talks real proud about this being a "nation of laws" when it's poor immigrants of another color involved. But if it's a rich white rancher then all the talk about "nation of laws" goes right out the window, and they pull out their rifles and confront federal officers. Now we know what they really want them-there rifles for.
That's like Harry Greed saying "It's not over, we are a nation of laws." Perhaps he needs reminded of that when it comes to the ones breaking our laws hopping across the border everyday? Or how about the ones that are here and have been here illegally? Why isn't he concerened for all law breakers? OHHH that's right .....VOTES.
I still cannot figure out what his comments have to do with his situation. I know. It's President Obama's fault he has not paid his rent.
There lair, cheaters, bigots in every groupf race. Just happen he is white and rancher. There is a small group that always believes that government owns them a living! OMG he is White Anlgosaxon & Protestant instead of Black or Brown. Well, if dig in the data, you will find the largest group are white, and lazy. Now Mr. Bundy may not be lazy, but he think it is his right to use public lands for free. Mr. Bundy pay up or go to jail!
You are right, there are liers, cheaters and bigots in every race. There are also bums, mooches, thieves, and those that live off of welfare and subsidies all their lives. There are those that teach their kids the same thing. Why though is it never racist to call them out on it unless they are black? I can say I know whites that are trailer park bums. I say about it and no one says a word. DON'T say any thing about a black! It's ok to talk about every other ethnic group but your a racist if it involves a black. Did anyone ever just stop and think maybe it has nothing to do with race? Maybe people are just sick of all of the moochers and the lazy. Those that are taking advantage of the system no matter what color or gender. Most don't have a problem with helping anyone that falls on hard times but there has to be a limit. There has to be motivation for these people to get up and get moving.
Welfare cowboy simply repeats lies by Lyin Paul Ryan and the Dynasty Duck guy. Guns Over People teatards BELIEVE this stuff.
I suppose since he has the Supreme Court on his side? Why shouldn't he be racist? We have a majority sitting on the Supreme Court that are also proving themselves to be racist as well. Any Politician that backed this apparent moron are now scrambling back under their rock for a while! Those like Hannity, Cruz, Limbaugh, and several others should be ashamed, but you need a conscience for that feeling! Not going to happen with many of these Tea party nutjobs!
You are so right! And I am a conservative, that has rejected the Republican Tea Party because of jerks like this guy.
You notice how fast all the Republican's are back pedaling! Or saying nothing! It's called open to exchange feet! The Republican's have not only shot themselves in the foot, they blow off their whole leg with shotgun blast! By coming to the defense of this guy they played russian roulette with every chamber loaded with live round! Now let see Hannity & Limbaugh spin their way out of this one!
You forgot to mention that while the standoff happend a 1st amendment area was setup and that relentless of what bundy says that should be big news
This guy is totally a welfare rancher and his supporters are interested in a civil war and Fox news wants to lead the charge, this is no different than what Putin is doing in Ukraine, they want a civil war people this is what these people want in America!
If you don't pay your way your a leech, period. @profile=wow your an idiot.
You voted for Palin didn't you. Fit the profile I bet.
1. Thinks they themselves are rich.
2. Makes less than $100,000/yr.
3. Has a net worth less than $200,000.
4. Primary residence is on wheels or blocks.
5. Still has a mortgage on that residence.
6. Thinks republicans are conservatives.
7. Benefits directly from the ACA but really, really hates Obamacare.
8. Thinks they are religious but they should read the book, "How NOT To Be A Republican" (a.k.a. The Bible).
9. Probably retired and depending on SS and Medicare or will be the person most likely to need SS and Medicare.
11. Likes to vote against their own interests.
12. Actually thinks republicans represent THEM!!
Hit the nail on the head about this creep stupid rancher. When he can not continue to get his way and ever court rule against him out of no place he start to talk about blacks where in the hell did thst come from. Lets set the record strait first of all what rock did you cone out from under. I know of no black are white for thst matter who understand what it means to suport them self and handle there business with out ripping off the taxpayers like these type of low life thugs do all the time as a matter of fact Sen Harry Reid was light on his name for them. So moron rancher while its sad to see ones as uneducated as you with a very limited vocabulary come out and try to speak on blacks topics and about blacks. Thanks but no thank we are during just fine and to the ones who are not I am dam sure they do not need a dead brain head as you to try and speak for them. For if I were on the back side of the moon you and those that follow your belief is the last thing I would want trying to help save us all. I know of third grader who are better at stating there case. A good place for you to start is Kindergarten.
This guy received over $437,000.00 in Federal subsidies from 1997 – 2012.
In private, the rich elite Republicans call them the voting "fodder".
Well, I am not a republican, but dont believe much that the democrats do are good for the country. maybe the individuals, but the country is going down the tubes because of it.
I could write up a stupid list about democrats as you did republican. I think we need to junk both parties and fine one that can balance the individual with the needs of the country.
example of stupidity 17 Trillion and counting
But my list is true. Your list would be just.....stupid.
But the list above is correct. Your list would just be stupid.
You do realize your post that generalizes and marginalizes other people so you can feel good about a hate filled attack makes you what you claim to be against? Probably not.
You fit the mold of a typical liberal democrat. You want everyone to be you. You can't fathom that your views are not accepted by everyone. You can't get over the fact someone has other views, good or bad, and can't seem to grasp the idea of freedom of choice. You can't seem to grasp that people may be happy with their "house on wheels". After all there are a lot of them and usually you will find they are using HUD or some other government subsidy to make that payment. Oh and usually they are democrats and you will find more of them located in democrat run areas. Give em money and food and you have votes. You also can't seem to let others live their own life. As long as they are not breaking any laws what's it to you? By the way your ACA you mentioned only helps those that have no insurance and they are typically the ones that already was receiving state or government medical services. The ACA hurts the middle class the most. The low income get it for nothing so that means the only ones paying in are the middle class. The more wealthy don't have to worry about it that much and the low income don't have to worry about it at all but those that are in the middle that are already forking out more for gas, food, heat and electricity now have their premiums doubled per month and on top of that have a 12,000 deductible every year. You want to spew you can spew, but when you spew stupid worthless information you make yourself look a fool.
Specifically, which part of Obamacare (that's NOT already in Romneycare) don't you like?
You will need SS and Medicare. Why do you vote for the GOP who want to get rid of them? See the Ryan Budget to see what the GOP want to do to the Old, Sick, and Poor people. Remember, YOU are poor.
Another fun fact is that other ranchers in Nevada who actually own their own grazing land view those who use public land as "welfare ranchers". They view HIM as someone on a government subsidy. And here he is casting stones at others while he doesn't buy his own property to graze on (and doesn't pay rent for it either... he just steals it.)
What a total creep.
Bundy is the equivalent of a man who refuses to pay his parking tickets for 20 years, but then threatens the guy coming to tow his car with a gun when the city finally gets fed up with him parking illegally and not paying his fines.
He's grazed his cattle on federally owned land (that has been federally owned since the land became a part of the US) for 20 years without paying his grazing fees. The government is finally coming to tow (confiscate) his car (cattle) while it is actively being illegally parked (grazing).
Why ANYONE has sympathy for this guy is beyond me. It's not his land. It's never been his land. Buy your own land to graze your cattle if you don't want to pay for the right to use federal land. Sheesh.
I agree with you. Though I am glad the BLM didn't try to use force during that standoff. Let the publicity die down and then find a way to get this resolved where it doesn't become front page news.
At some point, he's going to have to be arrested.
The government (through legal action, mediation and other methods) has been trying to resolve this peacefully for 20 years. Every court case has gone against Bundy. Yet not only is he not paying the accrued fines, he's refusing to even cease the illegal grazing.
For 20 years the feds have been trying to do this in a reasonable manner. Even their last action (just confiscating cattle currently in the process of grazing illegally) is completely reasonable.
But Bundy isn't willing to be reasonable. The idiots supporting him are making him even less likely to accept a reasonable resolution. I still can't see how ANYONE supports Bundy on this. It's not his land and never was his land. He's using it without paying for the right to do so.
Stop being a mooch and use your own land, or pay the fees to use someone elses. Quit stealing it.
Bundy is a WELFARE CASE. Nothing more, nothing less.
huh I figured he was Republican
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Author, documentary filmmaker, historian, Speaker of the House (1995-1999), and 2012 Republican presidential candidate
Fmr. Obama Deputy Campaign Mgr. and W.H. Sr. Adviser, founder of Precision Strategies, fmr. Sr. Adviser to Maj. Leader Reid and Sen. Kennedy
Conservative columnist for New York Daily News, contributing editor at Townhall Magazine, commentator and author
Former Special Adviser for Green Jobs under President Obama, co-founder of Rebuild the Dream, author and attorney
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