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On Crossfire, Bill Kristol and Thom Hartmann discuss the House Republicans' bill to reverse health insurance cancellations
You know the Republican's could have been more engaging when the bill was be written and Democrats and President could have been more accommodating.
So, now fix it! And Mitt and Ann quit going around saying the President Obama lied or incompetent. It does very little for your creditability.
And it is a disservice to the country.
You should remember two things, if you are in that situation would you like the name calling? Secondly the Massachusetts Healthcare had a number hiccups and still consider by some conservative as a horrible plan!
The republicans could have been more engaging when they were being lied to and then shut out of the process? Do you not remember Obama telling the repubs that elections have consequences? The Libs own this problem all by themselves. They passed this law using lies, fraud, deceit and only democrat votes. Any effort of the repubs was in response to the lies, fraud and deceit was met with more lies, fraud and deceit from the MSM and the dem party. You really need to try and be more accurate in your thoughts and comments.
They tried having a say in it but all democrats did was say shut up. If you remember they had the 60 votes needed to over come any filibuster and a majority in the house. The democrats were not interested in anything Republicans had to say they just wanted to do enough to get their own party to vote for it.
Almost all American's wanted Wall Street to be cleaned up and forced to stop selling JUNK securities. Why don't we want the Health Insurance industry cleaned up and forced to stop selling JUNK insurance policies. Seem like a double standard.
Why is it bad to want to hold people accountable for their lies, fraud and deceit? You think that you know better how people live their lives, and you are all for forcing people to BUY something they may not want or need. How is that a good idea ever? Where do you get off telling people what they have to buy? I find your willingness to be controlled by your big government handlers to be quite telling because you are not only willing to be told what you have to do, but you are all in over making your fellow man do what you think they need to do. You are part of the problem and not the solution because your idea that the government knows best is the most dangerous aspect to individual freedom. Why are you so willing to sell your soul to the devil?
Republicans cure diseases by killing the patients.
Really? You sound so reasonable that EVERYONE will follow lead. NOT!
this is obviously a CNN comment page because the brains were checked at the door. only the kool-aid, sycophant, messiah worshipping lemmings are on here finding excuses for all the vile, destruction their 'leader' has wrought! can't wait for you to find out your don't have either health care coverage OR a doctor! but that's ok – cause o'dumpo says it is!
GOP is itself broken how can it possibly fix anything
GOP ran the country before the collapse of the economy and had the last chance to try and stop it but they didn't even see it coming...or so they say,they merely handed the mess off to the next guy.
Thanks to the next guy we did manage to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs and stabilize the economy with Republican's doing everything possible to sabotage the effort.
No one believes Republican's want to fix anything,especially "Obamacare".
Everyone does know that if the ACA works the GOP is f*ck#d.
You are unbelievable. I mean that what you say is not believable because you still believe the lies, fraud and deceit that your liberal handlers have given you. You lap it up like kitty does with a saucer of milk. The economy crashed due to Dodd/Frank. That was given to us by your libs and not the repubs. You really need to expand your news sources because you libs are not well served getting your information from Comedy Central, MSNBC and CNN. You will only get the lib talking points where you surf. Has there not been enough, even on your news sources, news covering all the lies, fraud and deceit that the dem party is proven to have relied on to win elections and passing laws? Is there any point where you are able to recognize the abuses with the truth that your lib party relies on to sell their damaging policies?
Well actually if you were paying attention the market crashed because President Bush (a republican) cut taxes and started two wars. Forcing our countries debt to grow, he did this by using special supplemental military appropriations. It is impossible to run a country when you're bringing in less revenue but spending more than you're bringing in. And before you go off on some tangent about how I'm drinking the liberal kool-aid look at these: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/11/us-public-defrauded-hidden-cost-iraq-war http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-415875.
Your point about the presidents universal healthcare policy is off too, most people don't feel like they've been lied to. You continue spewing these opinions of yours as if they are facts. The reality is that with more people covered the cost to taxpayers is going to fall, no more having to cover the health bills of some student that broke their arm and doesn't have coverage. The other thing to look at is what would you do if you had a pre-existing condition and couldn't get coverage? This universal health care policy answers that question, those people will be able to get coverage. More people going to the doctor equates to a more healthy population. healthier people are happier people. Happy people work hard, people who are working are less likely to need supplemental benefits(SNAP) from the government. Meaning in due time your taxes will fall. This is something that can work if there was less resistance, I'm not advocating for bending over and giving one side of the political spectrum what they want. But I do believe there are bi-partisan ways to optimize this new healthcare policy, and I do believe there are leaders somewhere in our government that believe in working together to acheieve a goal that can make life better for the American people, not just democrats or republicans or independents. But nothing will be acheived until the grandstanding stops and the work begins. And the way that you are coveying your standpoint to others isn't helping us in the direction that WE want OUR country to go.
Like Wiley Coyote fixing the Road Runner.
If by fix you mean Sabotage.
There are always those accusations that the Democrats are as bad as the GOP when it comes to being owned and controlled by “the money” but there really is little to substantiate that and actually it is completely illogical. Yes, there are some large donations given to the Democrats and I’m sure there are pressures along with them but it is simply so totally obvious that is a trickle compared to the very large waterfall that is given to the Republican / Tea Party. Even just considering that “the money” has far closer ties, both physically and philosophically, with the GOP dispels a lot of that and then add that the GOP is far more organized in that effort with the likes of Norquist, Cheney, Rove, the Koch brothers and others who aggressively use the mega-bucks to solicit, intimidate, coerce and control the “puppets”, to assure total unity for “the money’s” purposes – there is no equivalent on the Democratic side. It isn’t uncommon for people to rationalize that these things are equal in order to justify their loyalties and biases but in the end, without regard for political preferences or beliefs, “the money” will control the “puppets” and not have any conscience for the majority, just taking the people for granted as being “pawns” to be duped, used and abused. The proof is constantly seen in the results and then in the abundant propaganda used to con the people and manipulate public opinion – with the majority, including the total middle-class, always paying the price, whatever party they supported.
but, all the political/corporate bureaucrats are in the same club. no observable difference between any of them. They're all using the inhumane economic structure to make money off every human need and frailty and to keep themselves in control.
Im sick and tired of this ever growing pissing match in modern politics. We can argue all day over where to place the blame....what is that going to accomplish? Democrats do not want to negotiate and republicans refuse to cave and reject their ideologies. Both parties are at fault. Get together and fix this monstrosity. Listening to Republicans and Democrats bicker back and forth trying to shift fault onto one another...why are my tax dollars paying for you to do that when I can just watch my kids do it at home?
I don't think that's entirely true; Republicans have been trying to get in the game for 5 years and we're just being blocked. I know anytime I try saying anything I get called a racist or a murderer or worse. It's insane. At the risk of getting pelted again I'll give it another try:
The first steps are fairly obvious: find a way to revive the cancelled policies and delay the registration deadlines in order to buy time to iron out a long-term fix. Do *not* approve the Senate Democrats' version, however – it allows people to keep their policies indefinitely which would kill Obamacare altogether. Remember, we're not out to kill Obamacare, we just need to fix it.
The real trick is to compel the insured to buy into Obamacare not because they have to but as a free market choice; the problem being that the hefty list of mandates makes the premiums too expensive. So we have to look at the mechanics of these mandates – what drives them and what might mitigate their impact on cost. As it turns out, Obamacare is a superset of state regulatory mandates *plus* the things that supporters of the ACA feel is necessary. It's this all-encompassing, bloated body of mandates – some of which even Obama probably doesn't care for – that makes Obamacare an unworkable solution. We need to replace that engine.
Some people have suggested that the Federal Charter Option may be a way to reduce Obamacare premiums because it would impose a far more sensible set of mandates and help streamline costs. The problem is that you will have to fight the state regulatory agencies in order to make that happen. Look for turf-ism to rear it's ugly head in such a battle.
The approach has a bi-partisan history; Bush put the idea forward in 2008 and Barney Franks tried it again in 2011. It's definitely worth exploring.
I don't know for certain that it would work, but there are smarter minds out there and there are probably a number of options to be explored.
Wrong – Reps had 8 years to do anything re health care coverage and they did nothing as they simply do not care
Now – Obamacare is not perfect but it is private sector and is 10000% modeled on prior Republican ideas and Romneyycare. Fact and reality
BO should never have promised people could keep crappy policies and now has to do something to fix it. One fix (a dem Senator has proposed is to allow all those with crap to keep their crap – fine and this dots the I)
but the REP plan is to allow those insurance companies to add more customers and not just let those with policies keep them -
For some reason there is no reply link on your message so I'll just tack it on here.
I was trying to address concerns raised by 'Anonymous' where s/he laments about finger pointing; I had hoped to do so by offering a few ideas rather than falling back on the same old rants. I would be most interested in hearing your ideas for a solution to this problem.
But since you challenge my earlier point, I feel I have to respond that the Republicans have been attempting to engage this process from the very beginning of this administration but they've been frozen out; the Democrats want to control it – the Democrats want to own it.
I haven't posted here often enough to know whether or not links are allowed, but I will attempt to post a link (a video) as evidence of this where Eric Cantor – then the Republican House Whip – tried to raise a cautionary flag about this precise issue in February of 2010. He warned the president at a Health Care Summit that the bill as written would result in millions of people losing their insurance and losing access to their doctors because of the mandates. Obama then talks down to Cantor, trivializes his concerns and goes on some irrelevant litany about regulating the cost of food; basically consuming the bulk of Cantor's time while talking about unrelated BS so he could turn the floor over to the Democrats. If Obama didn't know about these negative effects of the bill prior to this conversation (which I doubt), he certainly knew about them after.
But there is an interesting statement made by Biden that most symbolizes this administration's attitude towards the loyal opposition, where he tells Cantor "you're either in or you're out.", which basically means "take what we're offering at face value because we don't need you anyway". Of course, the president's failure to take Republican concerns into account has led us to the situation we find ourselves in now and is the topic of this CNN article.
I didn't get the impression that the President was talking down to Cantor. He should have walked over there and held the paper to the cameras to show that they are a government format with very wide margins and about 1/3rd coverage. Also, less words than a Harry Potter novel.
Cantor is showboating for the cameras but Obama entertained his "questions" by comparing the regulation of health insurance with the regulations of food and other programs established to protect the health and safety of citizens. I'm not sure why you would conclude that is not relevant when it is clearly is.
You can't simultaneously argue that the law is too long and incomprehensible and claim to understand it. That invited the President’s response. Apparently, Cantor and other Republicans still don't get what he explained to them in simple terms or they wouldn't be advising younger people to not sign up and the like. So the effort was certainly justified.
This letter (Nov 18, 2009) from the CBO addressed to Harry Reid is presumably the letter Cantor is referring to.
As you can see it isn't brief and in fact it is quite detailed, addressing a number of issues concerning the law and how it will affect insurance coverage and the effect on the budget. I didn't find the reference Cantor spoke of and a non-trivial fraction of the policies recently cancelled were issued after the law was passed. Why would insurance companies issue policies knowing they would have to cancel them in a couple of years? Did they inform those people taking out the policies that they would cancel them soon? To conclude that the CBO or anyone else knew insurance companies would do that is speculative unless there was some intentional design underway out of public view.
You can go down to the supporting table "TABLE 3. Estimated Effects of the Insurance Coverage Provisions Contained in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act"
This line seems the most telling, the numbers being the effect of the law on the uninsured in years up to 2019 when it is negative 31 million, concluding that by 2019 the law will effectively provide coverage for 31 million more people while providing an overall reduction of the deficit.
Uninsured /d * -1 -1 -1 -16 -23 -28 -30 -30 -31
This video is a more broad and objective analysis of the "Healthcare Summit of 2010" in my opinion.
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier James,
The important point I'm making is that Cantor warned the Democrats of the fact that people would lose their insurance in the individual market as a result of Obamacare mandates, that they would lose their physicians as a result of Obamacare networks and it was all discussed in early 2010. And the Republican concerns were summarily dismissed in this summit. To say that the Republicans didn't try to participate in any of this is malarkey. This looks like Cantor reaching out to me.
An interesting side note is that the Democrats continued to sell Obamacare stating that they could keep both, which we now know to be wrong – and can only have been a lie given the fact that this discussion took place nearly 4 years before the failures of Obamacare took place.
I'm equally sorry not to get back with you on this Jim. I considered this to be a very old thread and I wasn't watching it anymore.
I'm afraid I disagree with your assessment of Cantor. Republicans have "predicted" every catastrophe possible since the start of this (The sky is falling!!) and by the odds they were bound to be right on something. Even if it is on a very small scale. I could find many more predictions (death panels and such) that were just fooolish and intentional misinformation.
The fact is insurance companies change policies often and people lose insurance policies and sometimes they have to settle for out-of-network policies that don't include their favorite doctor - but they always have a option to pay more for that alternative. It's pretty tacky to blame the Affordable Care Act for that as well as for lost policies issued after the ACA was passed, but if you want to buy into that you can.
Setting all of the details aside. The ACA exists for a reason. People are dying from the lack of decent healthcare. 30 to 50,000 per year. In my book, that fact dwarfs the aguments against the ACA and more than justifies the temporary problems with the implementation.
I think any rational person who was watching knows Republicans have had no interest in reforming healthcare. They were left out of the process because their effort was to stop it. Obama really wanted it to be bi-partisan.
And a interesting side note. Republicans are very up-front about how bad the government is at running things but they were very insistent that the "public option" be removed from the law. They know very well that the government can do a lot of things very well. They also knew that insurance corporations wouldn't be able to keep up.
I know we should have another tea party shut down, I am glad that the Dems have not caved into the tea party which is controlled by the Koch Bro. that is a fact. But I would love to see more moderated republicans back in office I would of voted for Jon Huntsman but the republicans were blind and put Romney in. until the tea party is gone I will vote straight Democrat. Hate too but no choice.
Well, in the end the tea party people were proven right to try and end the disaster that is known as Obamacare. You were lied to and seemingly still believe the lies, fraud and deceit. What will it take for you to realize that Obama and the other libs were P. I. ssing down your back while telling you it was only raining and you fell for it.? Additionally, you are still trying to sell another lib lie where in your dishonest mind you actually believe that Obama's refusal to negotiate over this terrible law. I will repeat that again. Obama refused to negotiate over anything causing the shut down. Nice try, but we are on to you and your fellow liars, deceivers and fraudsters.
When is it ever a good idea to use lies, fraud and deceit to sell your agenda, elections and laws? Your false comment about how the republicans are responsible for anything associated with Obamacare are just ridiculous. Do you not remember all of the fraud, lies and deceit that the libs used to pass this law before we were able to find out what was in it? I do and I think you do too.
It really is time the Democrats take a good long look in the mirror and at least allow the grown-ups a chance to look at this mess.
It's been cute watching you kids play in the streets for the past 5 years and ignore every word of caution directed your way, but things are getting a little bit out of hand now and you need to take a time out and think about what you've done. On a stool facing a wall. Wearing a dunce cap.
Your ignorant...keep you ill mannered rhetoric to yourself...nobody wants to hear your opinion you old fart!
Precisely my point. Keep making the same stupid mistakes and don't bother taking any input. You're doing a fine job.
What? You seem so rational I think I will also start believing the lies, fraud and deceit that you are selling.
"ignore every word of caution directed your way"
You're right. Including death panels was a bad idea all along.
Here we go again.
"Scrap this law. There is no way to fix it!"
And REPS have done nothing – zero – but watch health care costs grow and grow and the ranks of the uninsured grow and grow
I want quiet for two years – while we see what happens with the AC and say SHUT UP to those who never lifted a finger to help the 50 million uninsured and fix a system not longer workable as fewer people work for large companies and more work for themselves or small companies
Reps had plenty of chances to do something constructive – but if you do not believe Gov should help then you do nothing. Social Security and Medicare got off to rocky starts – lets give this 2 years and not have 41 votes to repeal it
Re: The two years you're asking for.
Hey man, if you want to ride that donkey over the cliff that's fine with me. The problem I'm having with it is that you want to take me and my family with you.
The ACA is the law now and it should be in everyone's interest to make it work for all Americans and that means to change the bad things and leave the good. Had the Republicans been willing to work together with the Democrats from the beginning we would have a much better law. The idea of dismantling the law now is a distraction that accomplishes nothing except turmoil. Mr. Kristol behaves like an intransigent child as evidenced by his closing statement, he has no desire to compromise or work toward a better government by being self centered and obstinate, which seems to be reflective of the overall Republican philosophy.
Everything the Repubs tried to do was not even looked at by the Senate. No consideration given at all. The Dems knew all along that people would loose their policies. By the way, by whose standards are they inferior? What about choice? also what middle age couple or 20 yr old male need maternity coverage? OBC is the first steps to a single payer system.
LOL...thank goodness for the republicans not wanting this ACA. They are the only push back the citizens of this country now have to ensure this thing improves. The idea they are 'not helping fix it' is ludicrous. The republicans are acting very much like a quality control unit – they are not responsible for fixing it, they are responsible for bringing to light what others pass on as being 'good' or 'fixed'. In a private firm this would happen behind closed doors because if the product went out like this, the law and the government would come down on tat company with its full force. When government is the provider, government must protect its power and political clout above the needs of its citizens. For those who want government running things, this is a first hand education on such things as the benefit of a two party system, division of power, division of public and private rolls as a few. Education requires the person be ready for learning. Forget political party pride and learn from this. Fascinating enlightenment as to fundamental party philosophy, disrespect for both public and private functions. Too bad this is not just a class but real life scenario.
You do know that the STATES could have done it themselves and that the providers here are private insurance companies and private doctors and hospitals
There is far less government then the actions of REP states to stop women from having choice
REPS do not care about the bottom 70%. So let them be quiet – let this have 2 years and if it fails – then lets see what the Reps can do in a world of less and less people working for the big companies that made private group health insurance a viable market until 10 years ago
It most be frustrating for low information, lie believing libs. like you. You are left with continuing to try and sell a lie that everybody, even you, knows to be a lie. How do rationalize this position? Do you even care that you were just a tool to be used by these corrupt, lying liberals and their political attempts to control even more of your life?
@ The GOP Solution: Nice summary of Democratic Party talking points. Got anything real to add??
Yeah the republicans are going to fix the A.C.A. like they fixed everything else. Boy and you thought it was messed up before just wait till they get through with it. It will be the biggest mess ever.
If republicans came up with it democrats want no part of it.
It's the NO NEGOTIATING platform democrats have had for years now.
Come on, you dont really believe that has been the dems not work with the gop? for obamas first 4 years the rep. party was the party of NO even when Obama included their ideas in his plans! i think you got it backwards. STOP WATCHING FOX
What part of you were lied to, deceived and defrauded by your lib party don't you understand?. It is time that you search out some real news sources because you are only getting a small part of the real news by your liberal news sources. Really, Comedy Central, MSNBC and CNN will only give more of the dem talking points instead of the real news. This whole problem is because Obama and the MSM lied and promoted this lie to the low information voter as a way to win elections, pass laws and setting policy. It has obviously worked on some of you who end up being willingly low information voters.
The GOP Solution: Turn all the Old, Sick, Poor, Non-white, Non-christian, Women, and Gay people into slaves. Then whip them until they are Young, Healthy, Rich, White, Christian, Male, and Straight. Or until they are dead. Then turn them into Soylent Green to feed the military during the next "unfunded/off-the-books" war. And don't forget the GOP all time favorite.........TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!
soundoff, could you be more ignorant or stupid, if you do not understand what ignorant means, about this issue. If King Obama, prince reid, and fellow idiot Pelosi would have read the bill they should have known this would happen. Just an fyi, a bunch of the republicans you are talking about in your comments told the idiot libs that this would happen 2 years ago.
Also, i'm a hispanic that is also a full hearted conservative republican.
George: Please tell me how it is that you know that neither the president nor Reid nor Pelosi did not read the ACA?Wait a minute; don't bother, because I know you just made it up like so many other radicals. You jamokes make up "facts" whenever you need some.Think about it; there is no way in the world that you could know what those three Democrats read or don't read.. so when you make the kind of comment you did, you are just showing your ignorance and lack of common sense – just like the rest of your peers.
Would you please run a reasonable approximation of the fiscal cost of “repealing” or "defunding" Obamacare- that is, approximate the ACTUAL, out-of-pocket cost including, but not limited to (1) the rising, unsustainable costs of Health Care under the prior format to be reinstated [i.e., with ZERO guarantees whatsoever they won’t be HIGHER]; (2) the direct and indirect costs to date of passing Obamacare and implementation [i.e., what, do you think the People don’t absorb the ACTUAL costs to date if the GOP gets to “repeal” or “undo” Obamacare?] and (3) then add, of course, the direct and indirect costs of "changing back to the old laws."
All of a sudden, these “unfounded” Obamacare “tales of woe”- much less website glitches- immediately seem puny and trivial.
While "Faux News" and WSJ and "paid for" media articles should address these dynamics…maybe the CBO could run these projected numbers for the People immediately? That way, the "paid for" opinions on TV would have to reconcile the self-evident imprudence of the "dropping the ACA"…dispassionately.
"He who would not be cured of ignorance must confess it." – Montaigne
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Author, documentary filmmaker, historian, Speaker of the House (1995-1999), and 2012 Republican presidential candidate
Fmr. Obama Deputy Campaign Mgr. and W.H. Sr. Adviser, founder of Precision Strategies, fmr. Sr. Adviser to Maj. Leader Reid and Sen. Kennedy
Conservative columnist for New York Daily News, contributing editor at Townhall Magazine, commentator and author
Former Special Adviser for Green Jobs under President Obama, co-founder of Rebuild the Dream, author and attorney
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